On the occasion of the release of John Wick: Chapter 4 this Wednesday, March 22, 2023, we had the chance to speak with Vincent Bouillon and Laurent Demianoff. The former is a stuntman and was Keanu Reeves' stunt double during the filming of John Wick 4. The second is also a stuntman, and was director of choreography throughout the production of the film. For the release of Chad Stahelski's film, we spoke with these two artists about their way of working, their references and the joy of participating in the development of a John Wick.
How do you fit into an international team?
Laurent Demianoff: So, you should know that the first team is in rehearsal with Keanu Reeves at least a year before the start of filming. Before even completing the final script. So we get a call from the production from the beginning of the conception of the action scenes. We integrate the team at the time of the preparation of the wholesale shooting. We then begin to prepare the actions of the film. When Chad first called on me, it was because he wanted a French choreographer to add a French touch. […] We integrate the project to manage the whole part France. And this from the beginning of the preparation. In particular, I had three big sequences to manage. I join the American team with my own team of French stuntmen, composed of six stuntmen. Then I brought in other stuntmen along the way, including Vincent, who joins us. Chad was looking for an understudy for Keanu Reeves. His former understudy was on another project at the time. Heavy responsibility of the blow. I'm the one who introduces Vincent to Chad. […]
What was the most intense and difficult sequence to make?
Laurent Demianoff: I'm not allowed to spoil too much or talk about certain elements of the film. I am still under a confidentiality agreement. But there is a sequence that is very video game, to say the least. […] After a few meetings, Chad tells me directly about this sequence. He explains to me that this is the big file for me. A sequence filmed in a very particular way, which wants to pay tribute to video games. So you have to do all the design of the set, the choreography and imagine where to place the cameras. It is a very big collaborative work between several departments. It's true that for me it was the big file of the film. […] 
There is a real originality in this sequence. And in reality, when you do it, you don't know what it's going to be. It's never really been done in a movie. We test before timings, we test different movements, etc … […] There was a crazy synchronization to be had. […] We knew that whatever happened, this scene was going to be talked about, whether we liked the film or not. I think the idea came from Chad, yes. He is someone who always wants to go further and propose new feats of action.
Wasn't this job too much pressure?
Laurent Demianoff: Oh no, on the contrary. It's fun because it's challenging to say that you want to do something new and that you're counting on me to do it. So obviously there's stress, but it's good stress actually. One of the questions Chad often asked was, "Are you okay, are you stressed?». If someone answered "no, no it' s okay", he would be a little full-mouthed, because he said that if you were not stressed it is because something is wrong. So I always answered: "yes, but it will do it". In fact, it was the right answer because we had to maintain this good stress. […]
Vincent, how do you manage to be Keanu Reeves' stunt double on a movie like John Wick 4 ?
Vincent Bouillon: I think that, from the base, it's complicated to be Keanu Reeves' understudy. Simply because he is a very talented, technically very good person. So to be able to help him at best it takes a lot of work. And then it's difficult to deal with a director who has himself been Keanu Reeves' understudy in the past. He rose in rank, he became choreographer, coordinator, assistant director to finally become a director. So it has a degree of requirement that is very high. The character of John Wick is very, very expensive. Which makes it a perfect role for a stuntman. You have to be physically and mentally hooked! 
Did Chad Stahelski give you any advice?
Vincent Bouillon: So not so much. He did not give advice with words but more with reactions I would say. Chad is someone who says when things aren't going well. Laurent Demianoff: It's hard to satisfy Mr. Chad Stahelski. This is someone who will not necessarily show moments of satisfaction. He does not praise or encourage much. He is constantly raising his level of demand. […]. Afterwards, he explained what he expected from the understudies, his way of working, etc. […] He made us understand from the beginning that he is a demanding person, who asks a lot. […] He explained to Vincent that he had to move like Keanu Reeves, that he had to imitate him, that he had to become John Wick in reality. Let me repeat this anecdote. Chad often asked Vincent, "What's your name?». Vincent at the beginning obviously answered: "Vincent". Chad would say, "Wrong answer, your name is John Wick!». He often tested it that way. […]
Where is the separation, the border, between the work of the actor and that of the stuntman?
Laurent Demianoff: […] Choreography is all that is combative. For fighting, he doesn't need to be doubled at all. After, for stunts, inevitably, any actor, whatever he is, depending on the dangerousness of the stunt, will need a stuntman.
Even Tom Cruise?
Laurent Demianoff: So, in reality, when there are stunts that are achievable by the actors, […] Yes why not. But in reality, there are some stunts on which it would be totally inconceivable to send the actors themselves. A production would never do that. It would be completely stupid, for example, to set an actor on fire. […] This is unthinkable. There is a happy medium. And even when the actors do their own stunts, stunts are still useful. They are a kind of crash test. They are the ones who test whether it is feasible or not and who prepare the ground for the actor. To quote Tom Cruise, yes he does crazy stunts, I do not want to take away his credit, he puts his life at risk. […] But there's all the stunt logistics next door that keeps him safe. […] 
Do all stunts seem feasible to you?
Laurent Demianoff: Everything is possible! Vincent Bouillon: We just have to look for solutions. Laurent Demianoff: Actually, that's it. The real question is more: how do you want to film the stunt. Vincent Bouillon: Each waterfall has its share of risks anyway. There can be a risk at any time. And that's what the coordinator tries to avoid as much as possible through rehearsals and training. We try to reduce this risk to the lowest. Now it can happen despite the preparation. Are there any stunts that can lead to greater risks? Obviously. […] After John Wick 4 is still directed by a former stuntman, who validated all the stages of the film. He knows what the job is. He created one of the most important teams in terms of action. Chad knows what he's talking about when he approaches the action. There is still a relationship of trust that is established when you get inside. […] Laurent Demianoff: […] There is always a risk factor on an action movie. And the higher the action vector, the higher the risk.
How do you deal with fear as a stuntman?
Laurent Demianoff: Fear and stress are normal processes. It is a defense processor of the human being. […] In reality, stress must be addressed and accepted. A stuntman who arrives stress-free on a set is usually that he does not realize the risk factor. So I'm going to ask myself questions. […] In this business, you must always remain aware of the danger. Vincent Bouillon: As Laurent says, the most important thing is consciousness. You have to be aware of the danger, the risks, the scene to then use this fear. We use it to galvanize us, so that it carries us. But we must not focus only on the top and especially on its consequences. […]
What are your cinematic references in terms of stunts?
Laurent Demianoff: So apart from John Wick, because John Wick is still THE stunt movie. […] What fed me were Hong Kong films, and especially Jackie Chan's films. For me, Jackie Chan is, and remains, the reference. When we talk about actors doing their stunts, it's the best in this field. If he twists his ankle, he continues to spin with his cast. After that, it's difficult to choose a film in your filmography. Operation Condor is still a great thing full of humor, stunts and ideas. Jackie Chan for me is the legend, he is the master of action. Vincent Bouillon: yes, same for me. Jackie Chan is emblematic. Then there are other actors who have contributed a lot. Jet Li, Bruce Lee, in another register, but Jackie Chan highlighted the stuntmen. He put himself in danger, he was injured, he highlighted our work. There are so many films, so many nuances in his films. This is the figure who made action cinema evolve.
What is it like to work with Donnie Yen?
Laurent Demianoff: It hurts [Laughs]. Donnie Yen has a different way of working. He has a different appreciation of the stuntman. In Asian countries we are harder on stuntmen. But in reality I think it's a question of culture. In China, Japan or Thailand, there is this approach of the stuntman who has to hurt himself. There is a culture rooted in Asian cinema where the stuntman is ready to take a hit. On films like Ong-Bak, stuntmen take beatings. It's all true, there's no VFX that kind of thing. But it's cultural. For them, it's normal. […] After Donnie Yen, he adapted to Western functioning. It has been exported. When we say it hurts, we laugh. But in reality, it goes very, very fast, so you have to be able to follow it. It is very accurate. Donnie Yen is an impressive speed of execution. […]
What kind of martial art does John Wick use?
Laurent Demianoff: John Wick is actually a Ronin. He is a samurai who has stopped serving his master. In this spirit, Chad is very attached to Japanese and samurai culture. So it's in the style of John Wick. He practices judo, aikido, jujitsu, and he has Moove signatures. And then he brought the gun fu, which is a bit like the modern sword.
Did you have to learn martial arts for the film?
Laurent Demianoff: Gun fu is not a style of martial art. It was created for cinema because in reality a gun is not made to be used at point-blank range. […] Personally, I practiced Chinese and Japanese martial arts. I practiced karate, kung fu and after other martial arts, a little MMA and boxing, etc … Vincent Bouillon: I am more acrobatic martial art. I was totally inexperienced in terms of judo for example. So I did intensive training.
Do you know Vincent, if you're going to be Keanu Reeves' understudy again in the future?
Vincent Bouillon: [Laughs] I have no idea, but we're on good terms anyway. https://youtu.be/qEVUtrk8_B4 Interview with PelliCulte, GeekKnightWorld and Zickma
